I’ve been struggling to put into words why I’m not drawn to Pinterest.
JWT North America CEO David Eastman, who opened up Social Media Week in New York finally put a voice to what I have been feeling. “Pinterest – it’s a beautifully laid out visualization of all the stuff we like, but am I the only person who feels there’s something human missing here?” Eastman said. “It all feels a bit empty. ” The problem with Piniterest or Facebook is that you can ‘like’ or ‘pin’ everything with the same casual action.”
Surface Level Conversations
This has been sitting in the back of my head for some time and Eastman has helped clarify it for me. It came up in the comment stream on Facebook Is Not The Internet, Nor Should It Be. The Facebook personal stream encourages surface level conversations. Likes, a quick, “This is awesome” comment, etc. Many have talked about this as a flaw in their network. You can see a big difference in Facebook groups, which are their own communities, their own subgroups. The conversations in those sub-groups are often much deeper. As Drew Meyers said, “Eventually, thought leaders will find a next platform where they can have better discussions, less noise and better UI, and the masses will follow over time.”
And this all made me think of a presentation I did at Inman New York in 2009. Oddly, it was titled, “Beyond Blogging.” Included in that presentation was a look at the work of two thinkers in the social software space, Matt Web’s discussion On Social Software from 2004, and Gene Smith’s building upon his thoughts with Social Software Building Blocks in 2007.
- Identity – a way of uniquely identifying people in the system
- Presence – a way of knowing who is online, available or otherwise nearby
- Relationships – a way of describing how two users in the system are related (e.g. in Flickr, people can be contacts, friends of family)
- Conversations – a way of talking to other people through the system
- Groups – a way of forming communities of interest
- Reputation – a way of knowing the status of other people in the system (who’s a good citizen? who can be trusted?)
- Sharing – a way of sharing things that are meaningful to participants
(like photos or videos)
Encouraging Quality Conversations
Smith’s honeycombs allowed him to visualize the primary focus of each system, as shown by the darker hexagon, and the supporting elements of the system, as shown by the lighter hexagons. What was not a large part of the conversation at the time was the importance of the strength of each building block, regardless of focus. What is being played out as we come to know and use social software as a part of our daily lives is that the quality of conversation is critical if conversation is the focus of the social software, and that even when it is not the focus, quality conversation plays a key role in the how we feel about a system.
I included illustrations of Blogging, Facebook and Pinterest in the gallery at the end of this post. Pinterest’s focus is sharing. Pinterest enables conversation, but like Facebook, it encourages very surface level conversations. I can pin something with little or no commentary. I can repin and like with simple clicks of my mouse. And while that sends a message to the person who originally pinned the item, it’s a very weak signal. It’s a kind of conversation, but it’s not quality conversation.
And that leaves me scratching my head about Pinterest. Because I have the same feeling that Eastman has. Sure, it’s hot. It’s driving traffic to websites in droves. But I wonder about it’s staying power. Like Flickr, it’s focus, it’s reason for being, is sharing, and conversation is a weak supporting element. Is that enough? Are quality conversations important for the long-term success of a platform like Pinterest? Does it feel empty to you too?
Hey Jeff! Remember me? Great post about Pinterest. It’s the newest thing so I’ve heard all the hype about it and it’s nice to see there are some dissenting opinions about it.
I don’t want to be another bandwagon guy who’s just promoting Pinterest but I do want to share my thoughts on why it’s grown on me. Pictures are power and I believe that a lot can be said through a visual representation. True, it is shallow in the actions with a simple “repin” and “like” at the moment, but if you look beyond that, it’s a collection of people’s stories and memories. It’s basically art.
I could go on and on but the last thing I did want to address was it’s staying power. I believe Pinterest has HUGE staying power because (like Facebook) I see it becoming a chronicle for people’s lives. Birthday parties, weddings, life events, vacations. Everything you’ve taken pictures at can now be organized into boards and shared with others.
Thanks for listening…once again, as usual, great post!
It’s obviously grown on a lot of people. 🙂 And I like it, I’m just not “drawn” to it like many are. Eastman’s comments resonated with me, especially his followup: “So if a person ‘pins’ a recipe for a lemon meringue pie, an image of Revlon lipstick, and photos of a newborn and a tank in front of Tiananmen Square [on Pinterest], it’s difficult to determine if a person feels differently about each item.”
Perhaps I don’t need to and perhaps that’s the point. But it does force me to ask questions about how I want to use it and if I want to use it.
Pinterest is where I go when I’m tired of chatting on Facebook and hanging out on G+. It serves as a lovely diversion and purely as a virtual bulletin board and scrap book for me. I use it for strictly for me, at least for now, & others just happen along to choose to connect or not.
And that makes perfect sense to me.
And your answer to “Are quality conversations important for the long-term success of a platform like Pinterest?” would be no, I’m assuming. 🙂
🙂 I wonder about that also, at this point I would say “no”.
Their ability to drive traffic to websites should allow them to monetize for long term growth. However, I am already finding a lack of organization that interrupts my visual pleasure on some levels. It is the shiny, new toy for me right now but may become the visually overwhelming nightmare for me and/or other users in the not too distant future.
Also: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/14/pinterest-success_n_1274797.html “The secret to Pinterest’s success – we’re sick of each other.” 🙂
I think that we can both agree that Pinterest itself has limited capability in terms of being able to conceive meaningful conversation. I think people are drawn to it because it adds another aspect to social media that maybe makes people seem more normal? So what if people pin recipes and images of Tupac and then the riots in Egypt. I don’t think the point of Pinterest was for people to explain their thoughts about it aside from a few details but rather provide a spark to initiate conversation elsewhere.
I would DEFINITELY want to Tweet or blog or Facebook whoever puts pictures of Tupac and recipes in the same board if not for the sole reason to know their thinking behind doing that =)
Sounds to me like what you are looking for is Google+ 😉
I had my first interaction on Pinterest yesterday. Actually, the interaction took place mostly on Twitter. It was based on a Pin that I pushed to Twitter (first time). I think as Twitter (which I love and will never give up) becomes filled with ever-increasing levels of noise, places like Pinterest might serve as the beginning of conversations that take place elsewhere. Much in the same way that exchanging business cards at a conference (Pinterest) may not be deep interaction. However, it may lead to an invite to a recurring, local networking event (Twitter), and eventually a one-on-one lunch (Facebook messaging).
Or God forbid, actually meeting in person 😉
I can see Pinterest becoming a starting point for a conversation, without question. I’m really not trying to bash Pinterest. I actually like it. But I’ve been wondering why I am not “drawn” to it. I’m fascinated by the “addiction” that people talk about and I wonder what drives the behavior. Web talks a bit about that, but not at length. And I want to expand on it one day. Relative to “Human psychology and drives, such as politeness. People respond to incentives! And people want to be polite, and want to share, and want to socialise.” And Pinterest plays into that basic psychology.
For whatever reason, I always think about Jesse Eisenberg’s line from “The Social Network”:
“We don’t even know what it is yet”
We know what those who created it want it to be. It is plainly stated on the home page. Where the users, or addicts, take it is another thing entirely.
I would not consider myself addicted to it. Yet. I too have been fascinated by the rampant use of the word “addiction” by Pinterest’s most ardent enthusiasts. Could it be nothing more than visual crack?
I forgot something–
perhaps the issue is not with the platform, but with the users. Pinterest doesn’t restrict conversation at all, or do anything to discourage conversation. People will use it however they want to use it.
I think that whether or not a particular platform results in deeper conversation is largely the result of those who are going there to have the conversation.
I also think that social networks are not now, nor will the ever be, the optimal choice for deep conversations. That is always better done in person. 😉
No, Pinterest doesn’t restrict. And, as always, it will be what users make it. The tools can only encourage behavior. In this case, the tools encourage that surface level conversation. I can break free from it if I choose. 🙂
Also, while this comment stream is not as good as sitting and having this conversation with you in person, it’s certainly not a surface level conversation.
Very true. I’m pretty sure that Seesmic was the innovative one when it came to nearly-personal, asynchronous, quality conversation. Remember those good ol’ days?
Very astute observation and one that I completely agree with. But unfortunately, surface level engagement is what our society in general prefers. Deeper levels of intimacy take time, energy, and commitment/investment. Our culture as a whole doesn’t prescribe to such things. We don’t even know who lives next door to us let alone engaging in meaningful digital dialog…
Unfortunately, this is true. And I find myself falling into the same traps as well.
you’re spot on…it’s not the platforms, it’s us. Our unwillingness to become vulnerable, transparent, and honest with others. Not to say that it’s wrong to frequent such sites for mindless relaxation/entertainment as Michelle states… we need such diversions in the hectic pace of life. But we also desperately need meaningful connection/interaction…
I find the play on our basic psychological drivers to be intriguing. Pinterest has game elements to it as well. All that’s missing are points.
yeah, well we know where ‘points’ eventually ended up, although it did bring us together!
Jeff – I really enjoyed your blog on this and it took me a long time to warm up to Pinterest. I have a couple of comments on the why to pin flip side…
1) I think Pinterest is innately more feminine than masculine. It’s not surprising that more men don’t “get it”. It’s all about eye candy. Most men don’t really care that much about eye candy. Men hunt, women gather. It’s genetic. Pinterest is about gathering (ideas, photos, things that are visually stimulating)
2) It’s not about starting a conversation, it’s about gathering ideas and sharing snippets. Different people think in different ways and in today’s society we’ve noticed that blogs do better with lots of beautiful photography or graphics. We are becoming more and more visually influenced and brevity is more important for gathering thoughts.
Once you’ve figured out what you want to have a conversation about, Pinterest isn’t the place to have it. It might be a place to show the end results though. This way, when others are looking for a similar conversation, it’s easier for them to find you.
I know we’ve been using Pinterest to share some of the design images of our students and instructors at http://stagingandredesign.com. We’ve seen our daily page views go from about 20 page views a day to over 600 page views a day (not that’s not a typo). Our first change was moving to a site that incorporated more eye candy – more visual stimulation and less of the ‘standard’ website look. The average person who visits our website (our top referring sites are, in order, facebook, pinterest & activerain) looks at 4 different pages before leaving.
We’ve had a lot more people sharing now and we are involved in MORE conversations than ever before. Sometimes in order to have the conversation, you have to get people where you are. Pinterest has been a great movement to help them sort & gather to find out where to be…
I’m going to read your comment several times.
I can’t wait to hear what you think… =)
I’m not trying to be nit-picky, but it sounds like starting conversations has been a lot of what Pinterest is for you. I am impressed with the numbers you are sharing, and I am on my way to check out what you are doing with it.
When I was kid at the mall I would go in to the frame shop and look at the pretty pictures. If I was there with someone I would say Hey look at this!
I’m not going to Pinterest to interact. I want to see cool pictures. As long as blogging has been around we’ve been told how important photos are to draw attention.
Pinterest is a museum, a gallery, graffiti on the wall, whatever; I don’t know why so many are overthinking it.
I over think everything. 🙂 But I’m over thinking this because so many are raising their voices in an attempt to make it something that I don’t think it is, like the “next Facebook.” I think it is exactly what you’re describing. It’s a place to go look at pretty pictures.
yes…. lots of eye candy grouped into boards that may interest you (then you can group them into your own categories).
I’m an overthinker too. It hurts but I found a great image on Pinterest that fits that.
I agree that people are making it out to be much bigger than what it is. Reminds of the weather guys who think every storm is going to be a blizzard so they don’t get caught.
I don’t think Pinterest is the next anything. Any SEO benefits it might still have will get notched down because google sees those links as too easy like Tumblr.
In the end the user decides what a platform is. Facebook originally wanted to just stay in colleges. Twitter didn’t know what they had. Foursquare was for guys crowdsourcing where the the hot girls were. They still can’t believe that people check in a home depot.
I hope people just enjoy it and the marketers find it useless. I don’t want an AXE poster hung next to the Mona Lisa in a museum. 🙂
Yes, Pinterest has been a conversation starter. One of the things my team has been great at has been doing great stages, taking beautiful photos and creating discussion among stagers. We’ve struggled with how to get it to those who might be interested in doing what we do – teach staging to those who want to learn. By pinning beautiful photos, those who are interested in “design” have found us, shared to others who are interested and a conversation with people who never knew we were here has been born.
Again, we made sure that our site matched what they were looking for – visual stimulation and they keep looking – then start thinking, “hey, I can do that”… next the conversation begins.
This makes total sense for your organization. Visual appeal really IS your product in many ways. And I have been enjoying conversations around changes to user interface to take advantage of what Pinterest may be teaching us about how people want/like to discover. New WordPress themes are coming out the incorporate Pinterest like gallery effects, and I really like where that is going.
Jeff T. … I am with you and a few others. I wanted to write about this, but you did a good job. Yes, I am on Pinterest, but only for my one business project, and not as myself. I am pinning my own pictures of Philadelphia, and using the ability of linkbacks to my site and posts.
So.. I agree, I think the interaction is very minimal, as you mentioned, surfice level. But, I am doing what Jason Hillard has done. I will tweet out a pin of a restaurant or bar while mentioning that establishment… and they appreciate the shout out. Some have liked what I did and it is opening doors for me in talking to these establishments, to help go after advertising for my Philly site. Just a different way to engage them.
Overall… I don’t spend any other time on it except to pin my pics and or tweet them out. I will disagree about Facebook being surface level on how I use it. I try to be deeper, to engage, and to get conversation. Yes, you are correct in saying that many just use it to send out pics, quotes, and other things. I like being more personable and getting to know others. Hence why I don’t care for Pinterest or can’t understand on how so many say they spend hours per day. But as Michelle D. stated, it’s a way for her to get away from the other platforms or having conversations. Jeff, you are correct in saying that the other platforms do take more work. And that our society wants it quick… that we are in a hurry, and don’t want to spend time. Well, I am not jumping on that boat per se. I am taking the long way, and making it work for me. Hey, good post here… I am on the same page as you are. Thanks
I have to agree with Melissa on this. Sometimes you have to convey an idea with a picture. You want to share it to start the conversation. Granted, Pinterest has a limited platform for conversations, but it’s a youngster. Let it grow up before you say “Off with it’s Head!”
Denise, I’m NOT saying off with its head. I like Pinterest. I’m really just talking out loud. The question I have is whether conversation is critical to its success. And it certainly may not be. But it may be the thing that is fueling my lack of gravitation toward it. I like conversation. 🙂
I don’t know why interaction, engagement or conversations HAVE to be quality ALL the time.
“Liking” on FB or re-pinning on Pinterest shows interest, and it’s a platform to find shared interests. It’s doing what it was intended to do – and that’s enough for me.
Lori
Lori, they don’t. 🙂
There are web snobs who read 1,400 word thought leadership pieces on Instapaper and there are cretins who just want to go down the rabbit hole of clicking pretty pictures on Pinterest. But in reality, we all have our moments where we’re both. I had a nice conversation last month with our friends Joel and Gahlord about this.
It makes sense that a visually stunning, frictionless sharing experience is going to appeal to the masses, as we all try to deal with signal to noise challenges that can create a perception of having less time. Who has time for a 200-400 word blog post on HuffPo or long thoughtful comments in a FB group conversation? Me want less words. Me want pictures!
Does it feel empty? No, it feels spontaneous and visually appealling. Does it have staying power? Take your pick: a) Lolz. b) SRSLY? c) Hard to say 🙂
Who said every new website on the internet needs to be a “social media” thingy that facilitates “dialogue and conversation?” When did the world stop looking at the web as broadly useful tool that can do a lot of different things? When did we decide to evaluate the usefulness every internet property along one, single parameter — how “social” it is? Or how much interpersonal engagement it can stimulate?
Pinterest is a mildly interesting new site that’s kinda fun to look at. Can’t we just leave it at that? I mean come on, it’s a freakin’ bulletin board… on the web. Wow. People who like looking at bulletin boards will like Pinterest; people who don’t won’t. But the level of interaction people are expected to have with a bulletin board — online or off — is low. AND THAT’S OKAY.
If we continue heaping all these “social” expectations on every single website that comes along, I am going to grow very, very, very weary of the internet.
Jeff, I love your comment. And I’m going to agree… THAT’S OKAY. I was brought to asking these questions by the new batch of “Six Ways To Make Money Using Pinterest” and “Why Every Business Needs To Be On Pinterest” posts that are literally cropping up everywhere. I don’t get it. And, I’m not drawn to it personally. So, the simple answer would be for me to say, “I’m just not drawn to bulletin boards.” So when a marketing guy like Eastman makes that comment, it resonates with me. And thus the real question, “Are quality conversations important for the long-term success of a platform like Pinterest?” I think the answer is most certainly, “no.”
And I’ll say this, I may be growing very, very, very weary of the Internet. At least the Internet that is made up of those who would attempt to turn every social site into a marketing vehicle. Some things are just social, or fun, or whatever. And some of them simply aren’t for me. And it’s really that simple.
See my response to JP. 🙂
Yeah, no joke. If I hear one more person say “You need to be on Facebook because there are 800+ million users,” I’m going to lose it.
fwiw, I don’t like/get Pinterest either. I think it’s a novelty site with a limited shelf life. The only reason it’s taking off is that the world goes bananas for anything with a waft of innovation in the social media space.
We clearly need to get to know each other better. 🙂
Jeff says: “And I’ll say this, I may be growing very, very, very weary of the Internet. At least the Internet that is made up of those who would attempt to turn every social site into a marketing vehicle.”
No kidding. Why do we now feel like every new platform needs to hijacked and utilized to promote our products/services?
Confession time… I signed up for Pinterest two weeks ago after being told many times I needed to check it out. I immediately started getting followers and somehow followed over 300 people (most I don’t know). I have not pinned a single thing- I don’t get it. I am afraid to drop my first pin… what if I pin the wrong thing?
My goal is to build deeper stronger relationships – quality not quantity. Currently I am enjoying other platforms where I have been very selective about who I connect with – allowing me to focus on those relationships and reducing the noise. I find that I am spending more and more time in those places…
I’m in the same headspace you are right now, Laurie. Brian Clark, @coppyblogger, said this yesterday as he signed off of Twitter. “If your business has a smart content strategy, you never have to worry about what Facebook does. Sleep well.” I could expand on that and say, if your business has a smart content strategy, you never have to worry about any social media. You’ll be able to leverage your content where and how you see fit.
Melissa Marro completely gets it. 🙂 I pin eye candy, things I might make, ideas I don’t want to slip through my fingers … it’s an open creativity journal. A few minutes on Pinterest revs me up better than a cup of coffee — *ideas!* Pinterest makes it quicker and easier to find things I like, leads me to the people who created the beautiful “stuff”, helps me learn to make these pretties and connects me with creators in Flickr, Facebook, blogs and so on. In the last two days I’ve been contacted by three crafty women with ties to WV. Two of them mentioned starting a local social group for crafty-quilty people. Like any other social site, you start on the screen and move to face to face. It’s all good. (And BOY does it drive traffic!)
Sarah. Wow. As far as the crafts and creative community this has been a game changer. I also happen to own a website called creatingthehive.com , a social blogging community for the arts and crafts industry that was actually done by the same guy who helped start ActiveRain for the real estate community. Pinterest has allowed smaller FANTASTIC crafters to find an immediate audience where before the SEO was taken by a handful of well sponsored, well funded bloggers. Suddenly new crafters who have real talent but not the same budget have a voice and it’s been fascinating to watch.
For us, like we’ve both said, it’s been pushing traffic like crazy. Right now, on The Hive, Pinterest is our number one referring site.
In the craft space, I can’t imagine there is anything better than Pinterest.
I really like a good conversation. 🙂